Why do Rockers down hip-hop for not using “”real”” instruments?

Question

Why do Rockers down hip-hop for not using “”real”” instruments?

Answer 1

First, I don't think it's a race thing. There are plenty of Black musicians who down hip hop (Branford Marsalis, for example) and there are plenty of White rock fans who enjoy it.



People just refuse to see that music can, and inevitably WILL, evolve. These same people who diss hip hop for using drum machines and samples today? Fifty years ago they would have criticized Buddy Holly for using an electric guitar instead of an acoustic one. Forty years ago they would have criticized Jimi Hendrix for using distortion and wah pedals.



I see it as their loss. They're so stuck in their own close mindedness that they refuse to see the beauty in the evolution of music.

Answer 2

Okay, so I have been a hip hop producer for over 10 years and I play guitar and keyboards. I have listened to and played lots of rock styles including metal and I can tell u from experience that it takes a whole other class of musician to play any live music like rock, funk, jazz etc. Hip Hop doesnt take the musicianship of any live style of music but with that said there are other skills a hip hop producer needs that u cant find anywhere else. u have to be a very good drum programmer, sound designer, composer, sampler, dj skills for finding loops and audio engineering or music producer experience will really make u a great hip hop producer in general.

Answer 3

Yes I agree that a drum machine is an instrument, but they don't play it. They just program it, which hardly takes skill. It just takes some creativity and knowledge of the software.



Lyric wise, I don't jump on the band wagon of saying every rap song is about shooting people and whore's and whatnot. I know there is good stuff out there.

Answer 4

Well, anyone who says that is just irrogant man. I mean, I have Rap/Hip Hop that uses real instruments and it sounds pretty cool. I don't hate Rap. Some people just aren't going to get it. There are just too many closed minded people out in the world that just can't accept a certain type of music. I myself enjoy anything that sounds good. End of story.

Answer 5

This is just plain arrogance, if you ask me.



Percussion instruments have been the cornerstone of music for 10,000 years. From the first day a man beat a rock with a stick, to the present array of electronically generated sounds, the process of creating music has has been constantly evolving.



Rhythm is what gives music its juice. Don't you think Mozart knew that? Paganini? Beethoven? How about Jimmy van Heusen (sp?)? Ray Charles?



When the acoustic guitar came along, how do you think all those violin players felt about it?



Not real instruments? Because you don't necessarilly use the same methodology to create the sound? Hogwash! Is it better music? That's a subjective question, and all of us have our opinions. Is it music? It most certainly is. And it has been since the first day a primitive tribe danced around a fire to the beat of a drum.



Anyone who says otherwise knows nothing about music. That's the opinion of a middle aged fat old white man!



Go for it, dude!

Answer 6

you're absolutely right my friend.



agree with you 100%

Answer 7

lol that guy said "walla"......must be the meth.





Look, I could give you a huge answer like many people did. This is a big topic to tackle....All I'm going to say is I'm white, love HIP-HOP, and respect the talent that goes into Hip-Hop and Rock music. Nothing you have said is offensive or biased. I love The Roots (Saw them with 311, amazing) and those guys can play. Alot of people can make a beat, but nobody can sample like Premier can. A short list of my favorite Hip-Hop artists:



Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Immortal Technique, Wu-Tang Clan (and their solo records), Gang Starr, A Tribe Called Quest, Ice Cube, N.W.A., AZ, Nas, Big L, Erick Sermon, Hi-Tek, Joe Budden, Redman, Jadakiss, & Styles P....of course there's more not to mention all the originators I left out.



lol, ok longer than expected, but I would like to add: This is my opinion and my theory, but many credit Blues for the creation of Rock music. While we all know that if you were playing the Blues, you were black.....but, without traditional, folk music being played by Whites, where would Rock music be? Point being, the combination of these two cultures/races under the same flag changed music history. End of story.





Edit: I forgot, Rockers down Hip-Hop over sampling and drum machines because they don't feel it's as complex or requires as much skill, therefore inferior.....speaking generally, not personally.

Answer 8

Well, I think youre a fool for making it racial. You actually didnt have to include anything about white or black. I actually agree with your arguments RE what is music and the definition of a musician, but have zero respect for you because you made it racial when it didnt have to be. This to me suggests that you are either trying to stir up crap, or indeed that you are racist yourself.



Racism isnt pretty coming from any side of the fence.



By the way, some of the sickest producers and hip hop artists around today are white (El-P, Aesop Rock, Despot, etc..). I cant help noticing that you chose to omit that. You also chose to class rock artists as being white and talking about their lack of talent in comparison to a black artist. Do you refuse to acknoweledge white talent? Seems to me like you enjoy separatism a little too much.



And no, I am not North American, so dont drag me into your US racial tension crap.

Answer 9

its not just the drum machines tho that is a major factor. its the lack of progression in hip hop/rap. I have never heard a rap song that had more than 2 changes, so the song becomes 3 mints of repetitive, redundant audio torture. also, rap artist love to sample from already writing songs especially "gay daddy" or "smoke daddy" or is it "puff daddy" somebodies daddy anyway.

Answer 10

i understand wut ur saying. i go an black high school on the south side of the chi. everyone listens to rap/ hiphop. i understand that the music isn't always about sex, violence and drugs. i am a rocker but i was raised with rap everywhere.

so i understand you totally. btw, i do consider a drum machine to be an instrument. in other words, i agree with you. :)

Answer 11

Hey man I'm with you,

My favorite band is Nofx but I like hip-hop, I suggest Sage Francis, the Grouch etc. to people in RnP all the time hoping to expand their horizons a little bit. I know it's not everyone on here, but most could care less, they are under the impression that they are so enlightened because they listen to metal or classic rock when they are only fourteen, but really they are afraid of anything different, whether its MCR or the Jonas Bros or rap

Some people don't even have music they like, just music they like to hate on.

I think that more creative thinking went into an Atmosphere song than into a Ramones song, you can't argue that

All of this combined with the lowest common denominator rap they are exposed to (you can't expect a hardcore kid to like Soulja Boy) and you have a climate of judgment and sense of superiority.

I respect hip-hop, it IS real music and most people who say different are either too old and jaded to ever care or too isolated from the best hip-hop to know any better, that or they are Green Day fanboys/girls from the UK, they just don't care for black music for some reason



Guy above said something I like that ties into my point, how people were mad that Buddy Holly used electric guitars instead of acoustic (not that I believe that specific example) but the idea of change anxiety, Like I said people are so wrapped up in appreciating the "classics" that they won't try anything new, mid-western kids are like "listen to Zeppelin man, it will change your life" And I'm thinking, it already changed my dads life you knucklehead, If people never tried new music there would be no Led Zeppilin! We would still be listening to f*cking Bach and Grieg and sh*t, it is just so ironic



Guy below me, wow you totally proved my point, VOILA not walla you dork



To bumface, you're saying that black people are denying that drum machines are music, do you live next door to Bill Cosby or something? Guess what it IS a race thing, demographically speaking at least, more white people listen to metal and more black people listen to hip-hop, that's statistics

Answer 12

Great question but the truth is lost on most. First hip-hop is to rap as gloves are to hands (I hope this analogy works for you now). As far as the use of “real” instruments is concerned, I feel these so-called rockers know little of the hip-hop history, as it wasn’t born out of the suburbs amid the middle class teens; it was born out of the ghettos of America…That right, the poor. The under privileged, under paid, concrete jungle living, poor. I know what these so-called rockers you speak of are thinking; the parents surly had money for instruments and lessons? Not a fat chance…Bottom line most of the hip-hop music is redundant, but nevertheless, it music and a artistic expression and therefore must be viewed as just that, a glimpse of someone’s soul through sound…BTW Mofohofo you are right anyone can rap but few can emcee, either know your history or become it…

Answer 13

Hip Hop Is Not Music

Answer 14

The Roots use real instruments on all of their stuff as far as I know. Questlove is a killer drummer. But in general hip hop has always been more about the producer than the musician which is why you see so much drum machine and sequencing in that type of music.

Answer 15

I agree with your definition of a musical instrument. It took a completely out there sound art class I took my freshman year of college, but I think you are right.

There are always going to be critics of any art (music, sculpture, painting, writing, poetry) because everyone thinks they're point of view is the most valid. As an artist myself, I think negative criticism is great.

I will listen to anything put before me and not judge it by it's genre or the person performing but by the message, the intelligence, the wit and the thought of the lyrics (if there are any); the sound, the notes, the harmonies, chords (a good song does something to your soul); the creativity (whether they're remixing (Andy Warhol painted a soup can that was everywhere and people think its genius) or creating a whole new sound); the beat (or lack of)...



A good song is a good song, but the world is filled with uncultured idiots. You do have to admit that in our world of easy access to recording devices a lot of bad music gets out there for the sake of trying to make money. That bad music is in every genre and coming from different types of people. But also every genre has its geniuses and great songwriters/performers even if that isn't the music you like.



Your best bet is to ignore what you don't want to hear from other people and keep creating or just enjoying the art that defines you.

Answer 16

It takes years of practice and plenty of skill to play real instruments. When artists program or sample beats from real playing musicians, it takes away the artistic credibility of that artist. I equate drum machines and sampling to lip syncing as opposed to really singing. Anyone can program drums with a drum machine or keyboard, but there is nothing like someone who could sit behind a drum kit and play triplets or double bass drums. That takes talent and years of practice.



In the early 80's, many rap artists were sued for illegally sampling original Rock tracks. 2 Live Crew were sued for millions by Van Halen for using Eddie's guitar tracks for instance.



I agree that Rap and Hip Hop are often misunderstood, but there is no way any true musician can equate a drum machine or two turntables to any true playing musician. Now a human beat box is something entirely different . . .;)

Answer 17

Instruments take time to learn, not saying that vocals do not, but in my eyes (ears) music itself in the Rock/Metal genre are more unique. There are so many different things you can do with musical instruments that you can never get bored of listening to the sound. I personally do not listen to hip-hop, rap, or R&B because the beats to each song sound very similar. When you rap, it is just saying words that rhyme, not actually showing much talent other then their skill with words. To me Hip-hop and rap is a music genre that is mostly used for dancing, but rock/metal is a art.

Answer 18

It's very possible to learn to sing well. You just need to know the right methods. Learn here https://tr.im/wGQjy



Singing teachers will cost money and can be expensive so they're not for everyone. Singing can be learned so it's not an "either you have it or you don't" kind of thing.



Whether you sound like crap or you're decent, I recommend this singing course. It's one of the best methods to learn to sing well in a short amount of time. It's all about using efficient techniques that work.

Answer 19

Because it must take so much talent pressing a couple of buttons, programming a computer, getting your producer to write the lyrics/music and talking over the top said electronic music. Learning how to play an instrument effectively takes many years of practice. To me, I don't find sounds made by a computer are the same as those made by a tangible object which may or may not be amplified or enhanced by electronics, i.e. an electric guitar still requires you to have contact with a tangible object to produce the sound. I don't know much about hip-hop (I can't tell a difference between rap and hip-hop but supposedly there is) but I highly doubt any of the artists could play an instrument.



You say they use samples, oh my God, it must be so hard using the work of someone else and not creating the sound yourself. Sorry if I'm being a bit critical here, but I really don't think there is as much talent in hip-hop than in rock/metal.

Answer 20

well, to me...

it doesn't really matter if they use instruments or not. music is music. it's whatever sounds good to you. i love rock and hip hop. they're two different types of music but really, those who love both genres, can tell that they're kind of the same. it gets really fustrating to me when someone says that they hate hip hop when they probaly dont even know what hip hop really is.



real hip hop uses real instruments, fake comercialism hip hop like soulja boy and plies just uses computers...

you should just forget about people who don't appreciate your fav artist or genre because everybody has different tastes in music.





oh and 'rap' is not a genre of music...'hip hop' is...

Answer 21

I think some people consider it cheating whenever an artist uses someone else's creation instead of creating original music on their own. I think it's creative. I think when most people say negative things about not using instruments, they may be referring to live performances. They don't realize, though, many hip-hop artists do use live musicians when performing live. You are correct when you say people think all the commercial rap is considered hip-hop. One of my favorite hip-hop artists, binary star, says it best, "this is hip-hop, not hip-POP." it's a shame too many people don't know the difference. You mentioned some bands you like. Just curious, ever give radiohead a try?

Answer 22

I agree with you. I think some of the rock fans who bash rap and hip hop do it mainly because of ignorance. They make harsh generalizations about it based only on what they've seen on TV and heard on the radio, and they don't understand the kind of effort and creativity that goes into good hip hop. Like you said, in most cases, the electronic devices rap/hip hop producers use serve as instruments. Besides, if songs created using electronic hardware or software aren't worthy of being called music, then techno, electronica, and a lot of music from the 80's isn't music either. As you said, some rap/hip hop artists do use instruments. Fat Jon (aka - Fat Jon The Ample Soul Physician; piano/keyboards), The Roots (drums, guitar, bass guitar, keyboards), Nicolay (keys, guitars, bass, drums), J Dilla (aka - Jay Dee, who played 20 instruments), and many others have all played their own instruments at one time or another. As a matter of fact, more and more rap/hip hop artists are using more traditional instruments in their music nowadays due to the legal red tape associated with using samples.



And to the non-believers who're still thinking "it's just pressing some buttons on a drum machine," check out this beat making video from a French producer named 20SYL:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OhDC5GUJYw



Like producer Kev Brown said in one of his beatmaking videos, "Don't get it confused. It's not just loopin' up some stuff and callin' it 'the sound of the culture.'"



Also, these same people are not aware that not all rap/hip hop is about "the club," sex, drugs, money or murder. That mainstream stuff we're force fed on a daily basis is only one facet of the genre; the underground circuit is where most of the variety and substance in rap/hip hop music is. And those who think that good rap/hip hop doesn't take any effort to create are dead wrong. Sure, anyone can talk over a cracker jack Casio keyboard beat, but not everyone can be an emcee (and for the record, yes, there is a difference between a "rapper" and an "emcee"). Being a good emcee is equivalent to being a stage poet. You have to have a very extensive vocabulary as well as a fantastic handle on language (i.e. - synonyms, antonyms, homonyms, etc.). You have to be familiar with similes and metaphors. You have to have confidence and stage presence. You have to have good delivery. You have to have a great memory (and if you freestyle, you have to think quick on your feet and be able to adapt). And on top of all that, you have to have a sense of rhythm so you can recite it all to a beat. The same complexity and effort also applies to any good producer. There's a lot of trial and error, fine tuning, technical know-how and musicianship that goes into what they do, besides the fact that they have to work in tandem with the artists who sing or rap over their tracks (and I know first-hand - my husband's a producer).



So in short, most of these bashers need to do some actual research on hip hop before making generalizations and jumping to conclusions.



Just my two cents.

Answer 23

The main difference is that what makes most of rock or metal so cool is that the bands write the words, the music, and play the instruments. The image or rap is that it is a producers medium and that once they get someone in a studio they clean it up so much that it is not real... there are some rock front men that just sing but while there are a lot of freedoms in rock, rappers seem to stick to the tried and true references to sex, drugs, violence, and profanity. You can call it art but I will still take Led Zeppelin over 50 Cent.

Answer 24

Alot of rock music is about about sex, women, drugs, or money not much killing

well sometimes...(Hey Joe and Bohiemum Rhapsody come to mind)



But most people don't like rap because I find it semi boring. I don't hate rap i'm actually starting to listen to it more but why would I listen to a rap song when I could listen to a kick *** hendrix song with ripping solos and such.

But I found my compromise



Rage Against the Machine

Answer 25

Often times hip-hop and rap is grouped together in the same genre'.



I love all types of music but I must admit that all of the "electro" sound out there, can get old. Sure you can get pretty close to imitating the sound of instruments when you go digital but it's still not the same to me.

Answer 26

question was far too long but considering how many people listen to hip hop, buy hip hop and dance to hip hop in clubs, i shouldn't think it matter what rockers think. people will find 'fault' in anything

Answer 27

I don't down Rap i listen to alot, but lately it is a bunch of crap, with no originality and is all the same beats. Older rap and what they used and how they blended music was great and there i agree 100%, but lately no way man

Answer 28

Ask any two artists, fans, or other assorted members of the rap/hip-hop community to explain the precise difference between the two terms, and odds are you'll get different answers. Even so, most would probably agree that rap describes a type of music while hip-hop refers to a cultural phenomenon that includes graffiti, breakdancing, and fashion in addition to music -- or as rapper *** social theorist KRS-One says, "Rap is something you do, hip-hop is something you live." Musically, the only difference between the two is that rap always contains the vocal element of rhythmically spoken rhymes while hip-hop can be purely instrumental in nature. Rap in its earliest stages consisted of DJs mixing records and juggling beats and breaks for block parties while emcees rhymed over the rhythms. This practice of adapting, dissecting, and transforming pre-recorded music to create new songs could be hip-hop's most significant contribution to modern music. Today, the digital sampling techniques first used by hip-hop producers to expand on the looping capabilities of live DJs are commonly used in electronica as well as mainstream rock music. In terms of industry presence, hip-hop made its biggest splash with Gangsta Rap, which gathered steam in the late '80s and dominated the pop charts in the '90s. Mainstream music, dazzled by this sudden sales power, devoured rap and spawned myriad rap/R&B crossovers and even heavy metal hybrids. In the midst of all this success, the DJ community responsible for pioneering hip-hop music faded from the popular picture, replaced by advanced samplers and elaborate studio production. Consequently, the rise of the turntablist movement celebrated DJs as musicians in their own right, not just in the context of rap groups. The return of the DJ heralded a resurgence of live energy in rap and hip-hop music. Many of today's rap artists record and tour with live bands, expanding the musical parameters beyond the constraints of samples and hooks.

Answer 29

because all that is required out of a drumbox is the pushing of a few buttons. it doesnt take YEARS of hard work and practice to master it. and using a computer program to simulate sounds isnt the same as learning how to read music, or sitting in your bedroom for hours until you get that solo right. im sure that MANY "white people" respect musicians who play instruments that are not automated, but its the ones who just type in 120bpm for 2:31 who are criticized. its like calling a 5 year old's coloring book a piece of fine art. the work is already done, all the kid has to do is fill in the blanks.

Answer 30

1

Answer 31

Takes more talent to play an instrument than have a computer do all the work.



Enough said.

Answer 32

Not all rockers see it that way. I don't down hip-hop, and I'd much rather use a drum machine and samples than split my performance pay with beer-swilling louts who hit on my girlfriend.



To the poster above commenting about metal requiring years.. ermmm.... 2-3 power chords, yer in. :P



Personally I prefer a blend of 'real' and electronic.

Check out our stuff if you get bored:

http://www.thesixtyone.com/gossamer/

Answer 33

I can play the radio, that doesn't make me a musician.



And don't pretend that rap's opposition to real musicians is anything but them being so cheap they won't split the profits. They rarely even pay for samples unless someone forces them, or the sample is so large as to be undeniable.

Answer 34

no offense but metal and things like that require years and years

of practice rap anyone can make up